Compiler on 2 Computers

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Hi;

We are a small company that creates one off items and prototypes for various clients. Our motto is: if you can think it, we can make it! With this in mind, we decided that we needed to add microcontrollers and electronics to our skill set. I'm a programmer by trade and come from an electronics background. I've done some extensive research and have decided that your products are best suited for us, for a couple of reasons.

1) Your compilers work with very simple to more advanced microcontrollers.
2) It appears that development and enhancements are coming at an unbelievable rate!
3) Having read many posts in your support forums, I'm impressed with how honest and open the support staff are and how quickly you respond to problems and complaints. I believe that your company will soon become the leader in PIC development tools.

Now that that's out of the way.

First, I'll list what I believe we would need to order:

MikroC Compiler for PIC
EasyPIC2 Prototype Board
PICFlashUSB

MikroC for dsPIC
EasydsPIC
dsPICprog

My questions are:

1) I currently program in all 3 of your supported languages. But, I believe that 'C' will be a better choice for our development. When do you figure MicroC for dsPic will be available?

2) Do I need to purchase both PIC and dsPIC programmers or will the dsPICprog program both PIC and dsPIC?

3) This is the most important question. I program on 2 different computers. One at my home and one at my shop. I believe that your copy protection is keyed to a specific computer. I can understand the need for copy protection, as I also distribute software and implement protection in order to ensure I get paid. Is there some solution for this difficulty? I've seen suggestions on the board that the demo compiler could be used on one system and the registered compiler on the other system. This won't do for me as the majority of development will be done on my home system, but tweaks, fixes and programming will be done on the shop system.

Thanks

P

[gambrose]

The EasyPIC ans EASYdsPIC boards both have USB programmers integrated in so there is no need for separate programmers.
As far as I know the two programmers are not interchangeable.

[LGR]

I'm not with mE, but as I understand it:

2) Do I need to purchase both PIC and dsPIC programmers or will the dsPICprog program both PIC and dsPIC?

They are completely different. You will need one each.

3) This is the most important question. I program on 2 different computers. One at my home and one at my shop. I believe that your copy protection is keyed to a specific computer. I can understand the need for copy protection, as I also distribute software and implement protection in order to ensure I get paid. Is there some solution for this difficulty? I've seen suggestions on the board that the demo compiler could be used on one system and the registered compiler on the other system. This won't do for me as the majority of development will be done on my home system, but tweaks, fixes and programming will be done on the shop system.

This has been discussed. The best solution that has developed so far has been to put the development system on a thumb drive. I tried this once, and it was very slow, but there may have been other reasons why. A USB (or firewire??) HDD should work well, but isn't as convenient as a thumb drive. You may want to try the demo version on a thumb drive, and see if the performance is acceptable. Some people keep the system on the thumb drive, and the project files on the HDD. I'm not sure if that helps speed or not.

[LGR]

http://www.mikroe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5916#5916

[Nebojsa]

Hi;

We are a small company that creates one off items and prototypes for various clients. Our motto is: if you can think it, we can make it! With this in mind, we decided that we needed to add microcontrollers and electronics to our skill set. I'm a programmer by trade and come from an electronics background. I've done some extensive research and have decided that your products are best suited for us, for a couple of reasons.

1) Your compilers work with very simple to more advanced microcontrollers.
2) It appears that development and enhancements are coming at an unbelievable rate!
3) Having read many posts in your support forums, I'm impressed with how honest and open the support staff are and how quickly you respond to problems and complaints. I believe that your company will soon become the leader in PIC development tools.

Now that that's out of the way.

First, I'll list what I believe we would need to order:

MikroC Compiler for PIC
EasyPIC2 Prototype Board
PICFlashUSB

MikroC for dsPIC
EasydsPIC
dsPICprog

My questions are:

1) I currently program in all 3 of your supported languages. But, I believe that 'C' will be a better choice for our development. When do you figure MicroC for dsPic will be available?

2) Do I need to purchase both PIC and dsPIC programmers or will the dsPICprog program both PIC and dsPIC?

3) This is the most important question. I program on 2 different computers. One at my home and one at my shop. I believe that your copy protection is keyed to a specific computer. I can understand the need for copy protection, as I also distribute software and implement protection in order to ensure I get paid. Is there some solution for this difficulty? I've seen suggestions on the board that the demo compiler could be used on one system and the registered compiler on the other system. This won't do for me as the majority of development will be done on my home system, but tweaks, fixes and programming will be done on the shop system.

Thanks

P

Thanks for the positive critics of our work.... but I know we can do much better....

I agree with gambrose, you don't need to buy separate programmers because you have the same programmers on the board.

As LGR already answered to your questions 2 and 3, I can tell you the release date for dsPIC C compiler: July 1st. Stay tuned.

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Thanks for all the replies. This is the kind of support I was talking about. Having read almost all the posts in these forums, I think it may be time to put LGR on the payroll

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of using a USB drive. This will allow me to keep everything in one little package (compiler, source and misc. tools). Also, this will allow on-site changes with the laptop. I read the post on possible corruption and slow speed, but having talked to a few people, I believe that Sandisk provides a very stable and fast product.

I understood that the development boards have their own on-board programmers. Many of our projects interact with machinery and may need changes and updates in the field. That's why I need the separate programmer. Actually, the ease of adding a programming port (Few cpu lines required) was a big selling feature. I kind of expected that I'd have to buy both the programmers for PIC and dsPIC. Just thought that since they have very similar connections, that it might be possible to use only one.

July 1st will be more than adequate for the dsPIC 'C' compiler (You guys amaze me at how quickly your producing software). Actually, we're not sure if we will even need the dsPIC, but want to make sure we have the extra processing power available. Since on some projects our deadlines are extreme and we're not knowledgable enough yet, we have to cover all possibilities in advance. The project that may require the dsPIC won't start until summer.

In the next month or so, we'll be going a small toy buing frenzy . Being as we need to purchase a number of items, we've been doing a lot of research. One item though has been a little difficult to decide on: oscillascopes. What oscillascopes do you guys use? I've been leaning towards a Fluke 124 Scopemeter. It's 40Mhz dual trace that's portable and has lots off features. What do you think?


Thanks
P

[gambrose]

The EasyPIC board also has an ICSP connecter on it but it is not populated.
Although I would agree that the separate programmer would be more portable.

[Storic]

Hi,
I too work on several PC for developments and require the compiler to be on both my Laptop and PC.

How about a segestion that you allow registration of a licence can be on a PC and notbook as one licence. Or a special price on a second licence.

I do have a usb drive and have considered the licence program on this for portability between the two. (PC and notebook) this is not a good long term solution.

As I have a licence for both mP and mP for dsPIC compiler, I to would like to have a second licence or my compiler software licence on both the PC and notebook.


Andrew

[LGR]

The EasyPIC board also has an ICSP connecter on it but it is not populated.

As I understand it, this is to program the 16C745 that talks to the USB. It is not an ICSP header. What I have done, is connect a 16-pin DIP ribbon header to a protoboard, and program PLCCs that way. You have place the 16-pin header plug in the lower 16 pins of the 18 pin socket. Ugly, but it works.

An actual ISCP header would be an excellent idea. The dsPIC PRO has an RJ-11 ICD socket which connects to the same pins as ICSP, easyPIC needs something like that.

[gambrose]

As I understand it, this is to program the 16C745 that talks to the USB. It is not an ICSP header.

That’s not good news I was intending to use that later. Why is it labelled up as ICSP in the schematic if it's not really an ICSP header?

[LGR]

Why is it labelled up as ICSP in the schematic if it's not really an ICSP header?

It is an ICSP header, just not an ICSP header for the board to program external devices. It is for an external device to program the USB interface chip. The SO-28 chip with the easyPIC sticker on it is a 16C745 USB-enabled PIC. It actually talks to your computer, and controls the flash process, but it needs to be initially programmed.

You can get all of the ICSP pins from the B port except for the MCLR. The easyPIC uses high voltage programming, so you need the MCLR. The easiest place that I found to get it is one of the DIP sockets. Maybe there is another place?? But, what I was doing is programming 68 pin PLCCs, so I made a board that connects to a header which simply plugs into the 18-pin socket. Far from ideal.

[pizon]

What oscillascopes do you guys use? I've been leaning towards a Fluke 124 Scopemeter. It's 40Mhz dual trace that's portable and has lots off features. What do you think?

You can hardly make a mistake with Fluke. Having portability in mind, though, the digital o-scopes are generally getting more and more smaller and thinner and lighter these days. At work e.g. we use a Tektronix TDS2012 (100MHz, dual-channel) which is about 30x15x10cm, and weighs less than 1kg. Perhaps such (or similar) machine could be useful to you?

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Having portability in mind, though, the digital o-scopes are generally getting more and more smaller and thinner and lighter these days. At work e.g. we use a Tektronix TDS2012 (100MHz, dual-channel) which is about 30x15x10cm, and weighs less than 1kg. Perhaps such (or similar) machine could be useful to you?

I had a look at Tektronix. I didn't realize they were so small. The fluke 124 is battery operated, but I don't really know if I'll need that much portability. It appears that you get more features and higher bandwidth for your money with Tektronix. What bandwidth do you think is minimum for working with PIC/dsPIC?

Thanks for your input.

[zristic]

What bandwidth do you think is minimum for working with PIC/dsPIC?

dsPIC works at most at 120MHz, so you need oscilloscope of at least 240MS/s. Tektronics TDS 2012 has 1GS/s which is more than enough.

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dsPIC works at most at 120MHz, so you need oscilloscope of at least 240MS/s. Tektronics TDS 2012 has 1GS/s which is more than enough.

Thanks zristic!

I didn't really understand the relationship between bandwidth and sample rate. A little more research and sample rate is clearly an important feature. The fluke only has a 25MS/s sample rate. Actually, Tektronics appears to have the highest sample rates in the industry.

Mostly the Fluke 124 was suggested by PIC users. For PIC, I'm sure this would be adequate, but for dsPIC, It would definitely be limiting to use the Fluke. And, I don't see myself using the scope outside of my shop, so battery power won't likely be of much use.

So, I think I'll purchase a TDS 2012. It's only a small price increase, but I get 100MHz instead of 40MHz, 1GS/s instead of 25MS/s and a color display. Also, it appears to come with better probes.

P.