Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

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LGR
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Joined: 23 Sep 2004 20:07

Re: Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

#31 Post by LGR » 29 Oct 2014 17:05

Especially since we were promised a PIC32 update the minute the PIC32MZ hardware became available, which was earlier this year...
If you know what you're doing, you're not learning anything.

fred85
Posts: 187
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 14:50
Location: Canada

Re: Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

#32 Post by fred85 » 29 Oct 2014 18:05

mbruck wrote: Edit:
Just hope someone from FTDI company will read all this comments.
FTDI has their own problems right now.

FTDI driver kills fake FTDI FT232?? (Read 113871 times)

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ft ... tdi-ft232/

http://www.zdnet.com/ftdi-admits-to-bri ... 000035019/

http://hackaday.com/2014/10/22/watch-th ... ake-chips/

I doubt they have anyone reading this, I think they are a little busy now with damage control. Maybe ME should be watching them, they might not be the best investment right now, no matter how great their chip is.

I completely understand your frustration with the poor updates it is really starting to get bad, even the flash programer is way behind. Any complaints about updates just gets the standard cookie cutter response

"The tool is updated according to our timetable and plans, sometimes this is not as frequent as our user would wish, but we are giving our best.".

hooper
Posts: 143
Joined: 23 Oct 2009 08:51

Re: Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

#33 Post by hooper » 21 Feb 2015 09:54

This are good news and even new boxes for the compiler are designed, so how come that one year later I fail to see the compilers on the products list on ME web site?

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filip
mikroElektronika team
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Re: Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

#34 Post by filip » 23 Feb 2015 11:13

Hi,

IF you are referring to the FT90x compiler, they are announced in October, so it 5-6 months period, not one year.

Regards,
Filip.

Stuartk
Posts: 54
Joined: 12 Jan 2013 04:17

Re: Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

#35 Post by Stuartk » 12 Mar 2015 17:12

I've been complaining on the PIC32 forum about a broken library function which people have reported for months: Flash library not working
Then I noticed that they have not updated their PIC32 compiler in almost 2 years. I guess the joke's on me for asking questions like that.
In some ways the joke is on all of us. mE's preferred business model is to release new compilers, add a juicy piece of functionality on that compiler, thereby enticing you to buy it while the other compilers slowly fade into irrelevancy.

Years ago I purchased PicBasic Pro and left that product due to lack of support and further development. Similarly Crowhill basic also looks like it has stagnated. There are no end of other environments that users could migrate to if pushed.

Respectfully, I think that mE should consider a modification to its business model. No one is suggesting that they work for free. Development takes talent and talent costs money.

The problem that I've noticed since I've been working in the mE ecosystem is the prevalence of crucial missing holes in their examples and functionality. This causes no end of frustration to the end users, particularly the hobbyists, who need a certain bit of code that they themselves can't develop, in order to turn a desktop curiosity into a cool prototype.

The end user typically asks for help and is then rebuffed.

It appears that the current pay $249 for a compiler and get a lifetime of updates is not a realistic means to fund ongoing timely development of that compiler.
I believe for long-term sustainability, mE needs to switch to either a subscription model or perhaps even a crowd sourcing model.

Consider for example that a lot of users were clamoring for a particular lacking bit of functionality. mE knows that to develop that bit of code would cost them $5,000 of money that they don't have. They could crowd share it. If enough users were willing to pay $50 to develop that bit of code then it gets developed as it would be worth it to the community. If it's not important to enough people, then it doesn't get developed.

Although this doesn't sound all that palatable, remember that the present situation is a lack of functionality and a lack of examples in crucial area's. I suspect that it wouldn't be all that hard to make a list....

LGR
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Re: Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

#36 Post by LGR » 12 Mar 2015 17:17

Essentially, Libstock is a crowdsourcing model. What perhaps could help is some coordination, for example, we don't need another robotics project as much as support files for more processors.

ME needs to focus on the things that can't be addressed by Libstock; such as adding MZ support to the PIC32 compilers.
If you know what you're doing, you're not learning anything.

Stuartk
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Re: Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

#37 Post by Stuartk » 12 Mar 2015 19:58

Essentially, Libstock is a crowdsourcing model.
Except Libstock is free and is usually not focused on a specific question or need. It often doesn't plug the specific "gaps" in the compiler that are lacking.

Crowd sourcing involves a monetary contribution that is focused on the fulfillment of a certain specific goal.

I'm willing to pay more, for more examples with better documentation which give me increased functionality.

Increased functionality is what will secure the future of our investment in these compilers. Otherwise users will switch to platforms that actually do the things that they need them to do.

p.erasmus
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Re: Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

#38 Post by p.erasmus » 13 Mar 2015 13:02

Stuartk wrote:
In some ways the joke is on all of us. mE's preferred business model is to release new compilers, add a juicy piece of functionality on that compiler, thereby enticing you to buy it while the other compilers slowly fade into irrelevancy.
This is exactly what they are doing

The other point to mention is while they add a new compiler for example in the ARM compiler cases they implement only examples for the new hardware released in the ARM compilers this any hobbyist that would like to use the new released hardware will buy the ARM compiler .
in the last 2 years from all the click boards released in this time only 2 or 3 had examples for the PIC compiler no examples for PIC32 or dsPIC compilers a person only needs to follow the things happening here to realize that our investments in the PIC and AVR compilers are lost

I suppose all new click board will have FTDI and ARM examples as this are the new compiler which they make money on
P.Erasmus
Saratov,Russia
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filip
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Re: Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

#39 Post by filip » 13 Mar 2015 15:32

Hi,
In some ways the joke is on all of us. mE's preferred business model is to release new compilers, add a juicy piece of functionality on that compiler, thereby enticing you to buy it while the other compilers slowly fade into irrelevancy.
Well, this is not true. The update for PIC and PIC32 compilers was released recently, we will soon add MZ family to the PIC32 and new AVR compiler release, all according to our plan.
I agree that there was some delay in the compiler's update, but we are in no way neglecting the "old" compilers.

As for the examples, we are giving our best to add support for all compilers, and each week we do.
If you pay attention to the Click board examples on the LibStock, you will see an evident improvement in this area, especially for the PIC and PIC32 compilers.

Regards,
Filip.

Stuartk
Posts: 54
Joined: 12 Jan 2013 04:17

Re: Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

#40 Post by Stuartk » 14 Mar 2015 15:26

Hi Filip,

I think everyone is aware that the staff at mE are dedicated and work very hard. Presently your company is supporting 3 languages across 8 architectures, many of which have hundreds of microprocessors. This is a gargantuan task.

And although there have been some updates, many of the requests from users go unanswered. Since many of the requests are reasonable, often involving core functionality or present hardware, it's logical to conclude that mE requires more resources.

Since mE is a good company that seems to be doing it's best, it's also reasonable to conclude that hiring engineering talent that fits into the company is difficult and takes time.

Many of the people in this list have expressed a desire to pay mE more money for more functionality and more longevity to the compilers. This is a good thing that many companies wish that they would have. It's a testimony to the appreciation that many of us have for mE products and should be given consideration by the management.

Regards,

Stuart

fred85
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Location: Canada

Re: Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

#41 Post by fred85 » 15 Mar 2015 01:24

Stuartk wrote:
I've been complaining on the PIC32 forum about a broken library function which people have reported for months: Flash library not working
Then I noticed that they have not updated their PIC32 compiler in almost 2 years. I guess the joke's on me for asking questions like that.
In some ways the joke is on all of us. mE's preferred business model is to release new compilers, add a juicy piece of functionality on that compiler, thereby enticing you to buy it while the other compilers slowly fade into irrelevancy.

Years ago I purchased PicBasic Pro and left that product due to lack of support and further development. Similarly Crowhill basic also looks like it has stagnated. There are no end of other environments that users could migrate to if pushed.
I've started using MPLABX for PIC24 I still use my mE C compiler for 8b PICs but I wouldn't trust them for another compiler, so while that business model may intially work, eventually it will backfire. If it would have been kept reasonably upto date, I probably would have bought the ARM and PIC24 compillers but after the 8b experience not a hope in hell.

Am I missing something with the 32 series? I know they look good in the product summaries but the erratas are just ludicrous. Does anything work on them? Even the new 32MZ has almost 60 known bugs and its on revision A5 and they only fixed like 3 of them.

p.erasmus
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Re: Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

#42 Post by p.erasmus » 15 Mar 2015 12:10

fred85 wrote: Am I missing something with the 32 series? I know they look good in the product summaries but the erratas are just ludicrous. Does anything work on them? Even the new 32MZ has almost 60 bugs and its on revision A5 and they only fixed like 3 of them.
Fred I have been using PIC32MX 1/2/5 and 7 series in series production designs there are no problem with these chips at all ,They produce more processing power per Mega Hertz than any of the ARM M3 and M4 devices (inform yourself at Core-marks and you will see this) Some of the PIC32 also Runs at 100MHZ now :D

The MZ is a problem at the moment as it is one of the few embedded MCU that Runs at 200Mhz MCHP will solve the problem I am sure, do not let the MZ Errata make you judge all the PIC32 that they have this lengthy errata
P.Erasmus
Saratov,Russia
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AndyIvan
Posts: 67
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Location: Karratha, Australia

Re: Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

#43 Post by AndyIvan » 23 May 2015 08:06

Hi Stuartk,

Yes well put. I would like to say that I would be happy to pay a yearly subscription for better on going releases of the ARM compiler.
Regards, Andrew

ilferrari
Posts: 195
Joined: 18 Nov 2013 09:09

Re: Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

#44 Post by ilferrari » 13 Jan 2016 19:09

Nearly one year since release, how many of these compilers have been sold? The MB and MP forums have 0 posts, and the MC forum has a handful (alot of which are about PICs :P ) Makes you wonder how much time was spent on them, how much vendor-financing was involved, and how many PIC customers have left for other toolchains due to lack of updates.

Toley
Posts: 922
Joined: 03 Sep 2008 16:17

Re: Anouncing the development of FT90x compilers!

#45 Post by Toley » 13 Jan 2016 20:21

ilferrari wrote:Nearly one year since release, how many of these compilers have been sold? The MB and MP forums have 0 posts, and the MC forum has a handful (alot of which are about PICs :P ) Makes you wonder how much time was spent on them, how much vendor-financing was involved, and how many PIC customers have left for other toolchains due to lack of updates.
I totally agree with you but the development of this compiler has surely been financed by FTDI, so it's not a bad business decision for Mikroe. But seen from our side (the customers of other compilers who are waiting for updates and bug fixes) the decision to work on this compiler is very questionnable.
Serge T.
Learning is an endeless process but it must start somewhere!

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